Albino Fox
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Hi! My name's... Idunno, forget that, just call me "Al".
Posts: 91
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Post by Albino Fox on Aug 10, 2004 20:42:25 GMT -5
They tried to force their religion on you? I'd smack 'em for forcing. I keep hearing about this happening. What religion is doing this? I feel quite the same really (except for the idea of actually "smacking"; 2 wrongs don't make a right). I hate it when people do that kind of thing; it's obvious how bad of an impression it sets on religion in general. Even some Christians do it I'm afraid, despite that such disrespect is ironically rather contradictory to the teachings of their own religion. Then again, by "pushing", did he mean forcing, or just the constant sending of religious messages here and there? I sure hope that the several perfectly polite advertisements about the Bible that I've come across aren't somehow getting on any non-Christians' nerves.(If my previous post sounded the least bit like it was trying to force anything on anyone, it's just because you can't hear my real tone of voice on forums. I'm not the type to force any way of thinking on anyone.)
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Post by wandering jinchuuriki on Aug 15, 2004 2:09:44 GMT -5
(I didn't mean litteral smacking)
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Albino Fox
Average Sonic Bait
Hi! My name's... Idunno, forget that, just call me "Al".
Posts: 91
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Post by Albino Fox on Aug 15, 2004 22:00:20 GMT -5
Ah, yeah, I should've figured that; people speak that way all the time around here. Probably the internet in general. I was questioning what you meant by that... otherwise I wouldn't have put quotes around the word "smacking". I still do wonder what people really mean when they say "I'd smack him for saying that" and the like...
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Post by wandering jinchuuriki on Aug 15, 2004 22:39:46 GMT -5
well it's just to illustraite that it bothers me that some peoples won't accept that others have beliefs of their own? of cource I've tried to bring people to my religon but not by telling forcing my ideas on them, but by showing what we learn about life and yatta yatta....
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Post by tailsdoll on Jul 14, 2006 9:28:00 GMT -5
look, this page is completely pointless, we should just leave everyone's beliefs to themselves! Ya know, He's got a point. But to be the last one, I believe in God. In Genisis 1:1 , the Bible said"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." It didn't say"In the beginning, People created God." Think about it.
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Post by tailsdoll on Jul 14, 2006 14:56:30 GMT -5
You people can learn alot from listening to the radio.
Life 101.9 FM is a good place to start!
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Kaninus
Newbie Kitsune
Ruff!
Posts: 33
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Post by Kaninus on Aug 8, 2006 14:36:39 GMT -5
I don't understand believing and not believing.. If you have to say specifically that you believe or don't believe something, that implies that you don't really think it's true; you don't fully accept it. And when someone gets mad, you can be totally sure that they don't believe what they're saying.
My parents are in the ministry (non-denominational christian), and they taught me some really crazy things that have really damaged my life. Now that I'm starting to learn about reality, I've had to abandon all christian groups. Whenever people form a group, it seems to eventually fill up with people that only want the title. I had no choice, I didn't decide one day that I hated them and was rejecting them, I just can't see how they're doing anything but harm, like my parents did to me.
I think, really, the fact is, a person can only be "religious," if God comes to them personally. You can't just make a commitment to go to church every week and go through all the proper procedures. You can't just memorize the bible or whatever other sacred text. All that is false, it's vanity, it's pride, you're just showing off. If you really want to find God, you have to start at God, because we can't really be sure of anything. One group says they've found conclusive evidence that the Bible is true, another group says they've found conclusive evidence that it's not true. I'm not going to trust any of them with something this important. Not preachers, not scientists, and not any sacred book.
What can we do then? Well, if there is some kind of supernatural being who lives outside of everything we know who created us, it would most certainly be required that he want us to find him for us to do it. If he doesn't want us to find him, there's no point in trying, because a being that powerful could certainly hide from us if he wanted, so this can't be a starting point. Our starting point is truth, reality, honesty. What we have been given. Whether there's a God or not, that's all we have. Sure the Pope or some scientist with twenty degrees might disagree with you, but, really, can you help that? Can you really change what you think because of someone else? I don't think so. I don't trust anybody else with something this important.
I want the God of reality. If a god created this world, then he must line up with it. I won't fool myself. I won't go to some magical mystical god who goes against everything I've observed in reality.
I read the Bible because I went to God first, and after I'd gotten to know him a little, the Bible started making a lot of sense. I still think a lot of it is wrong, but that's okay, I can't help that, and God knows it. If he wants me to believe it, to show me how and why it actually does make sense, then he will, as long as I stay with him. That's the thing that really matters. You can't help what you believe.
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Post by Kyran on Aug 9, 2006 2:15:18 GMT -5
In the beginning there was nothing.... and then it exploded.
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Ingolme
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Ingolme the "Tails" Artist: "If it can be done then I can do it"
Posts: 87
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Post by Ingolme on Aug 9, 2006 12:14:38 GMT -5
I don't think you understand the Big Bang. The Big Bang does not contradict the second law of Thermodynamics. The universe was an extra-concetrated ball of pure energy and then it expanded and tranformed into matter. Expansion, rather than explosion, is the proper word for it, except that it was a very quick expansion.
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Kaninus
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Posts: 33
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Post by Kaninus on Aug 9, 2006 13:34:52 GMT -5
Donno if it's right or not, but I remember in high school I was taught that if an infinitely dense piece of matter expanded, it would be uniform, not like our universe turned out. That makes sense to me.
But besides, if that's how it happened, where did that original piece of matter come from?
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Ingolme
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Ingolme the "Tails" Artist: "If it can be done then I can do it"
Posts: 87
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Post by Ingolme on Aug 9, 2006 15:51:43 GMT -5
In the end you'll never get a complete answer. There's supposed to be energy out there, just energy that can create universes whenever it wants. But these kind of things are such an unimaginably inmense scale it's hardly worth looking at. In the end there's probably some kind of god that organized it this way.
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Post by IrisFaust on Aug 9, 2006 18:34:56 GMT -5
i know i said i wouldnt post on this subject again, but i am anyway due to its revival,and gained control over my frustration on the subject so i will not get heated. This time im not going to argue the existance of a god/or gods, but rather pose a question,If god/s infact did create all of this,whos to say that he didnt do it out of boredom, and set us up with rules contrary to our very nature for his own amusement?Just cause its a supposedly omnipotent being does that mean one should let its rules which may or may not have been written/and or/manipulated by the hands of man dictate your lifelong guidelines?IMO hell no.We exist, isnt that really all we need to know?Does it really matter why or how? we should just continue to prolong our species and better our selfs with time .Then maybe such answers will come along the way.Thats my 2 cents on the matter anyway,and i realize its not that simple, but getting into the legistics of my already ever changing philoshophy would take too long, but i am however open to other ideas, so post away.
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Kaninus
Newbie Kitsune
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Post by Kaninus on Aug 11, 2006 3:21:09 GMT -5
It would be a white hole; complete opposite
And IrisFaust, your post is nonsensical.. God would have to create some thing called "amusement." You're talking like amusement somehow exists without anything else whatever. He would have to create the "rules", and our natures too. He would also create time, and thus live outside of it, so boredom would be an impossibility for him, but I think the god's motives for creating us would be irrelevent
Now, if some amazingly powerful being wanted to create a world full of creatures who did nothing but suffer horribly forever and ever, he could certainly do that, but can't you see that it would be meaningless? Those creations would have no understanding of suffering as we know it, because that's how they've lived from birth. They have no point of reference. And the creator would have no reason to create something like that because in order to do that he would first have to create a thing called suffering which would have no meaning except inside his creation, so it would be pointless for creator himself.
It would seem to me that in a creator-creation relationship, the only thing that really matters for the creation is doing what the creator tells it to do. I can't see any point to anything else since the creator creates everything the creation knows. That is, if the creator has given the creation free will, and if the creator chooses to tell anything to the creation, and I think both are true for this world. It would be pointless for a god to create things that had no free will, because they would just be extensions of himself, and of course if he was powerful enough to create them he wouldn't need them. Then it would also be pointless for him to create a world for his own "amusement," as if our world were an aquarium or something, because as I said, he has to create something called amusement first, and it would have no meaning outside whatever he applied it to. And in a world he didn't "talk" to, again, he would have to create time, and thus he would see the world from beginning to end and it would present him nothing unexpected, and certainly nothing amusing. There just simply wouldn't be any reason to create something like that. Not that it would be a waste of time (because he's outside of time), or a waste of energy (because he's all-powerful), but because there is no doubt that he could do anything he wanted just by willing it. He could, in a manner of speaking, go up and down the act of creation a million times before he even decided to actually create it. There's just no reason to.
Thus.. The only thing I think an all-powerful being would bother with creating is a world of free-willed beings that he communicates with. Taking it a step further, the only way that communication would have any meaning or purpose at all is if the beings somehow touched the same eternity that the creator is in. I have no idea how that is exactly, but, as I've been saying, it's the only thing that makes sense to my mind, and, amazingly, I can go to the Bible and find talk of just that. It says that God "created us in his own image."
Now of course, this is all presupposing that God exists, as you wanted
But in our world, it does seem that the "rules" contradict our natures. I'd agree with you there. And actually, so would christianity. The bible says we're born with a nature that's in rebellion against our creator. Simple as that. But it also provides a solution to that problem
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Post by IrisFaust on Aug 13, 2006 10:45:57 GMT -5
It would be a white hole; complete opposite And IrisFaust, your post is nonsensical.. God would have to create some thing called "amusement." You're talking like amusement somehow exists without anything else whatever. He would have to create the "rules", and our natures too. He would also create time, and thus live outside of it, so boredom would be an impossibility for him, but I think the god's motives for creating us would be irrelevent Now, if some amazingly powerful being wanted to create a world full of creatures who did nothing but suffer horribly forever and ever, he could certainly do that, but can't you see that it would be meaningless? Those creations would have no understanding of suffering as we know it, because that's how they've lived from birth. They have no point of reference. And the creator would have no reason to create something like that because in order to do that he would first have to create a thing called suffering which would have no meaning except inside his creation, so it would be pointless for creator himself. It would seem to me that in a creator-creation relationship, the only thing that really matters for the creation is doing what the creator tells it to do. I can't see any point to anything else since the creator creates everything the creation knows. That is, if the creator has given the creation free will, and if the creator chooses to tell anything to the creation, and I think both are true for this world. It would be pointless for a god to create things that had no free will, because they would just be extensions of himself, and of course if he was powerful enough to create them he wouldn't need them. Then it would also be pointless for him to create a world for his own "amusement," as if our world were an aquarium or something, because as I said, he has to create something called amusement first, and it would have no meaning outside whatever he applied it to. And in a world he didn't "talk" to, again, he would have to create time, and thus he would see the world from beginning to end and it would present him nothing unexpected, and certainly nothing amusing. There just simply wouldn't be any reason to create something like that. Not that it would be a waste of time (because he's outside of time), or a waste of energy (because he's all-powerful), but because there is no doubt that he could do anything he wanted just by willing it. He could, in a manner of speaking, go up and down the act of creation a million times before he even decided to actually create it. There's just no reason to. Thus.. The only thing I think an all-powerful being would bother with creating is a world of free-willed beings that he communicates with. Taking it a step further, the only way that communication would have any meaning or purpose at all is if the beings somehow touched the same eternity that the creator is in. I have no idea how that is exactly, but, as I've been saying, it's the only thing that makes sense to my mind, and, amazingly, I can go to the Bible and find talk of just that. It says that God "created us in his own image." Now of course, this is all presupposing that God exists, as you wanted But in our world, it does seem that the "rules" contradict our natures. I'd agree with you there. And actually, so would christianity. The bible says we're born with a nature that's in rebellion against our creator. Simple as that. But it also provides a solution to that problem You make alot of good points, mostly on the opening of my statement. If you believe what you just said you have one of the strongest creationist mentalities i have ever encountered.I enjoyed reading your post as it gave me things to think about. In the end i still believe it doesn't matter whether god exists or not, whatever it is.Your statements did however show me how it could be more likely, But it wasn't absolute,Not to say that anything is absolute coming from only one person. in any case i thank you for the fresh perspective.
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Post by wandering jinchuuriki on Aug 19, 2006 1:29:26 GMT -5
all i have to say is that truth be told, you'll never find an absolute answer to whether or not God exists, though there are many points to each side neither is complete, nothing has absolute evidence, like in the defence of creation where did the weak come from? and in defence of atheism, where did God come from? i believe you two (Kaninus and Iris Faust) were right in finding your own opinion on things and I"m also glad to see that thinkers still exist, people who challenge a statement, i don't get to meet that many ppl like that anymore >_>......this is actaully and interesting topic on teh talking board ^_^.....just commenting
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Tailsfan
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Obsessed with 8-bit music
Posts: 97
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Post by Tailsfan on Aug 21, 2006 11:00:41 GMT -5
I believe in God, however I'd like to call myself a Christian-in-question. Sometimes, I wonder if God, for some how, used magic to create the universe or maybe He was a great scientist and created a huge chemical reaction.
I truely feel that God does exist and that there's a heaven and a hell, because the Bible is not just a book of prayers and hymnals; it's a record that priests updated back in the day. So, the Bible is pretty much a history book.
I have some athiest family members and friends, but I could care less if they believe in a god or not. Sometimes, I think man creates religion in order to regulate their lives. Besides, so many of our gods, such as Anubis or Thor, were called heathen.
My beef with Christianity is that we Christians like to flaunt our religion in front of others. Take Christian music for an example. If I was a Budhist and I'm sitting in my car driving and I flip my radio on and suddenly I hear this song about God, I'd feel degenerated if you ask me. I understand that songwritters have the freedom of speech, but God is to stay in the church, not in your radio or your GameCube.
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Post by wandering jinchuuriki on Aug 21, 2006 19:13:12 GMT -5
priests updated the Bible? ??
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Tailsfan
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Obsessed with 8-bit music
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Post by Tailsfan on Aug 24, 2006 9:57:48 GMT -5
If the next messiah came around, I would have no doubt that the Vatican would do so, but in a way yeah priests updated the Bible. When Moses crossed the Red Sea, they jotted it down and eventually got translated by monks and then it was compiled into the Bible.
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Post by wandering jinchuuriki on Aug 27, 2006 10:33:19 GMT -5
moses is the one who actually sat down and wrote the first five books of the Bible, at least i've heard, but i have nothing to back that up
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