Sonic Heroes whinge.

[Krazed Kitsune]

I really like SH. Really. I spent a hundred AUS$ on it, so obviously I like it. But some things about it really annoy me.

The game LOOKS CRAP. I'm not talking about the graphics. The graphics are beautiful, and match some of the 'better' games on the console, but why does the game appear to be crap? The camera angle is so far away, even on HUGE TVs, the graphics are ill-defined and hard to see. Even worse, the developers didn't use a lot of the better graphics we know they're capable of (Having seen them use them)!

The bosses are too easy. I got an A or B on every boss first time through. The enemies are dumb, too. I've died more because of the silly controls or Omega/Knuckles punching off a ledge than enemies killing me. I've died twice to an enemy. In the whole 120 hours of play time I've done, twice I have been killed by an enemy.

There's no option to play as a singular character? WHY?!?! I wanna play as Tails!! AAhhh!!
The fly formation looks stupid.

Bingo highway and Casino Park are stupid. I hate them, and almost everyone does. WHY must they insist on putting such annoying levels in games? Those kind of levels put people off playing the game. They should've been optional, and they should've made two, 3d levels that were realistic.

That's another whinge. Look at Station Square. Look at Grand Metropolis. What the heck?! What happened there? Station Square was based in the present model of a city, but the next game in the SA universe has a city set in the far future? Casino park and Bingo Highway, who the hell thought of that? A city/highway made of pinball tables and the like?

The emerald challenges were too hard, full stop. Make it through bingo highway and its pinball tables just to fail at an emerald challenge because of the sh*t controls and camera angles that force you onto the roof. Great idea, goal-post heads...
If they wanted to give us a challenge, that's why super-hard mode is there. (BTW, Shadow already has one of the seven emeralds, so why are there seven emerald challenges?)

Super-hard mode should be available when you have 120 emblems, not all As. I don't have all A's yet, because I hate Team Chaotix, so I can't play the only other worthwhile challenge left. Don't get me wrong. I'm good at Sonic Heroes. I want to play superhard mode.

Team Sonic's theme song sucks. I love that style of music (although more like 'Won't stop, just go!' for Green Forest), and We Can has a good sound, but Ted Poley and Tony Harnell blew it completely with the lyrics and vocals. They should've got a younger singer. You should never make a song like We Can as cheesy as they did, and they shouldn't refer to the game or characters in the song. You have NO IDEA how hard it is to persuade someone that Sonic games have good music when We Can is playing in the background.

What's with the annoying tilesets?! The levels are too linear.

The Team on Team battles are so easy it isn't funny. Not ONCE did I get anything else than A first time I did each and every team battle. The only times I've died on them is after repeating them, while trying to MAKE them hard.

Why is there no level editor? If the best Sonic Team can do is make the levels so simple and linear, why can't they include a level editor? Come on, it would be so easy. Ever played Tenchu2? Even an editor as weak as that would be appreciated. It would also increase the replay value of the game a hundred fold.

A difficulty setting would be cool, too, since some levels of Sonic Heroes (AND SA2. *Cough* Final Rush *cough*) are really annoying first time through.
Like, on hard if ANY of your team gets hit, they lose rings, and die on the second hit. I mean, who's idea was it that all apart from the leader should be invulnerable?

Okay, now that I've gotten that off my chest, I KNOW I WAS WHINING!! Don't bother telling me, cause I know. It's just that Sonic Heroes was such an awesome idea, but Sonic Team screwed up in some areas. There isn't even ANY true character development in the game. Some complain that Sa2 had too many automatic sequences, but I thought it had a good balance between plot and gameplay.

I own SH, and have played it for more than a hundred hours, and still play it almost every day. That might actually explain why I have so many complaints about it though. I'm just pointing out the bad aspects of the game, not bashing it. After all, Tails is at his best (in my opinion) in Sonic Heroes.
I could point out the good aspects, but I'd be here all week. I have to eat you know.

What do you guys think?
BTW, please don't get on my back because I had the nerve to do this post. Remember, I spent a lot of money on this game, so I have the right to feel a little bitter. I love this game, though.

Pheew! That post took a while. That's a habit of mine, by the way. At least I get my point across, y'know? I hate reading posts that are two lines long and leave you with more questions than answers. Usually the questions involve the poster's literacy and/or sanity.

[Verde]

You aren't alone, a lot of people thought Heroes was mediocre. I thought it sucked, knowing how Sonic Team could make something as excellent as SA2 only to put so little effort in the next game; they have been in a bit of a depression ever since the Dreamcast got canned.



*It was Sega's bad decisions, not the PS2, that made DC bite the dust. The more you know, the less of an idiot you are!

[Krazed Kitsune]

The sad thing is, SH would be awesome if the camera was closer so we could admire the graphics more.

I wouldn't say it sucked. Sucked=Spyro- Year of The Dragon.

One thing I'm really peeved about is the fact there is no level editor. No editor for SA1, I can understand. But for SH and SA2, an editor would be easy to program.

[Marik]

No crap the game sucked, but what console do you have it for, if its the PS2 or XBox, well no crap its looks horrible, they slowed the frame rate and lowered the graphics from it since the GCN is the best for frame rates. Next everything about it sucked and it got sucky reviews from fans and critics. Only blind fanboys think its decent. I really think Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 wasn't all that I hoped for it, they suck. The entire series doesn't deserve to be 3D, it should just be a long fast sidescroller with good graphics other than this adventuring more than the basis of speed. And since Yuki Naka did not create Tails (unlike every other character), he doesn't expect the best from him. Some kid made Tails and the kid argued about the name(Must be Miles never Tails to him) Naka flipped him the verbal bird and he was noticed as "Tails", and then just Tails. It seems to me that from every game, he is seeming more as a geek to the Sonic family, especially in Heroes and if Naka ever thinks of making another Sonic game (I bet its PS3 only) Tails will either not be in it or have the suckiest part in the game for the third straight game. They gave him the geeky role in Sonic X also, so don't expect Tails to be Mr. Hero. I'm sorry, but it's true.

Sonic has become the next Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon, a failed mascot. Naka was a genuis but the next gen consoles slapped his talent in the face.

[A. Rian MacPherson]

Ahh good old Sonic heroes. I think it was a great game except for the fact that it seems as if it was aimed at younger players. I mean look at the pointlessness in Team Rose's story. I just think the difficulty was too low. I even used AR to hack the game into giving me super hard mode. ( I was too lazy to get all A's. I had 123 before I said screw it.) Super hard mode just adds more robots and has more impressive light dashes and death defying jumps. Sonic Heroes was a great game game on Gamecube and Xbox but was significantly lower quality on the Playstation 2. The special stages were completely stupid on the Playstation 2 version due to the slow flame rate and late control response. Basically the system that played Sonic Heroes the worst was Playstation 2 and I know for sure it's not the system's fault.

[Krazed Kitsune]

Harsh words, but true, Marik .
Except for one thing, Naka is no genius. Everything you just said you disliked, can all be attributed to Yuji.
Sonic may be failING, but it's not as bad as Crash or Spyro; the reason they died, was because their owners didn't care for them. I'm not a blind fanboy, but I do like Heroes. It's fun, so that justifies buying it IMHO.
Yuji DID NOT create all other characters apart from Sonic and Tails.
Yuji's the one screwing Tails over, and we all know that.

The special stages were annoying. I know exactly what mileskun means when he says 'late control responses'. In other words, half the time you're on the bloody roof and you don't know how you got there.
The special stages must've sucked on any system you could name.

Oh, and Marik? How can Tails' have had the suckiest role in a game for three games straight? In SA2, he had the same gameplay as Eggman, and in Heroes he's one of four fly characters.
I've got faith in Sonic Team, as dumb as that may be, and I hope they can pull their heads out and notice what they've done to Tails; he's easily one of the best characters and he has a lot of potential. Knuckles doesn't, Amy is annoying, Cream is just stupid, but Tails can be made into something big. If Sonic Team can't see this yet, that's their fault.
I've played the earlier games and, for their time, I'm sure, they must've been great games. But games are now a cross between video games and movies. I KNOW a 3d, RPG for Sonic and co. can work out fine. It's just a matter of if Sonic Team will pull it off.

BTW, I have a PS2. Had it before I was a Sonic fan, to tell you the truth, so I didn't consider the difference between the GC and the PS2's version of heroes. I'm not about to buy a GC or X-box, however. Even on those systems, most of my above complaints still apply. PRobably all of them.

Hmph. I want super hard mode! It's so stupid that you must have all As before you can play something actually challenging. I don't want to play as Chaotix ever again... the next time I hear that annoying insect, Charmy, I'll hurl my TV out the window.

OI! NAKA! Next game, Tails as a playable character, full RPG style, no bloody racing against Sonic or stupid looking mech-walkers!!
Oh, and stop trying to rely on reputation to sell games like Square-Enix does.

[Marik]

In Sonic Adventure, Tails was mimicing Sonic's storylne for nearly 3/4 of it. Sonic Adventure 2 Storywise: Tails was in control, he dominated. But playablility was horrible with him in a damn mech. And Heroes.... I thought Heroes was made in 6 months, but it was 20. How the hell can a game with 20 months in the making be that. Heroes will be a stain of Sonic's history.

Also, The Character development since Adventure has been very bad. Sonic lost his attitude, Tails has changed so he tries to be indepentent, yet be depentent on Sonic, that's impossible. Knuckles was supposed to be the Kai(From Beyblade), or the Gary(Pokemon) in the Sonic Series, the nemesis, rival, he's supposed to hate Sonic and Tails, yet be on their side, against Robotnik, now he is the wannabe ally, he not only lost his attitude, but became a wuss at the same time. Amy just got better since Sonic CD. Robotnik isn't even Robotnik anymore, he's Eggman. Eggman was supposed an insult made by Sonic, but now what, he accepted it and changed his last name over it?!
And there are too many characters to deal with so thats how they crammed them in one game. I love Cream, but after Sonic Adventure they went overboard with too many characters. I say divide branch off the Characters. Why can't there be a Knuckles Chaotix 2 with Knuckles, Vector, Charmy, Espio, Mighty, Ray the Squirrel and they can be against Robotnik or Nack the Weasel. Where the hell are Bark the Polar Bear or Bean the Dynamite Duck. Why can't Shadow can't branch with Rouge or Omega or whoever the hell else. Sonic should rescue or team with Amy, in a very cool looking and long ass 2-D speedbased scroller. And Tails should do his own thing, whatever the hell it is. And Big should straight up die with that damn frog. Also I absolutly hate Cheese the Chao, that useless piece of crap reminds me of Togepi with Misty(Pokemon), USELESS!!!!!!!

Yuki Naka says he makes games for children. I WILL NEVER BELIEVE THAT EVERY TIME I SEE ROUGE THE BAT OR AMY'S SKIRT! THAT GIGANTIC BUST ROUGE CARRIES ON HER CHEST, OR THE MANY UPSKIRT SHOTS I SEE OF AMY (or even poor 6 year old Cream...) WILL ALWAYS MAKE ME SEE THE MATURITY IN SONIC!!!!!!!

[A. Rian MacPherson]

Haha games for children, thats a good one. If Naka knows his fans, most of them are fans from the earlier Megadrive series. Is Naka paying attention to his consumers?

[Marik]

No seriously, he isn't.

[Krazed Kitsune]

Yeah, Tails' story was kinda forced along with Sonic's in SA, yeah.
As for Heroes, are you serious, Marik? I DO know Heroes isn't the best Sonic game ever made. SA1 is the worst IMHO. Why? It had a good story, but it was badly told.

You really are a big fan of 2d sidescrollers, aren't you? I'm NOT, so whatever.

I agree with your idea with the plot branching; I've been talking to my friends about it for some time.
Knuckles is a prat with or without his attitude, and Sonic hasn't lost his, just changed; he's now more tolerable...

EGGMAN is the dumbest name I've heard for a while, and why Robotnik would adopt it as his name is something I'll be perplexed about for a while...

I'm an old-school Sonic fan too, Marik, but I also like the new universe. You seem to hate it. However, Big can jump off a building and use Froggy as a cushion for all I care; he's the most annoying character in all of Sonic's universes. Cheese is so pathetic; the japanese infatuation with little animals like digimon and pokemon gets on everyone's nerves, but Chao are just another pokemon ripoff... and I also thought 'Togepi!' when I saw Cheese for the first time.

As for it being too mature, the real market for Sonic is teens. Although the random upskirt shots freak me out... SA1 was very guilty of these camera angles. But I know why they do it; it's realistic. If you're wearing a skirt, don't expect it to behave all the time (So my old girlfriend tells me). Look at Lisa from the Simpsons: Her skirt is, like, molded to her.

Rouge is just a... yeah. Never mind.

BTW, it's YUJI. Not YUKI. At least I've never seen anyone called YUKI NAKA in the credits or official sites of any Sonic game or movie.

[A. Rian MacPherson]

Yeah I hear you there. ( I have only refered to him as Naka in this whole thread.) Also, what is a IMHO? *Feels dumb for asking that question.*

[Marik]

I know its Yuji but when I post like that I just rampage through it without proofreading it.

Sonic was famous from the genesis showing of the speed characteristic of the genre, since the Saturn, Sonic has failed to show me and a hell of alot of reviewers and fans that speed and attitude. Remember Sega leaded by Sonic told the gamers in the world that they are what Nintendon't. They were true in a good sense in the 16 bit wars, and they continued that with a different meaning with the Saturn, a very negative meaning. They did every bad thing. Like not releasing a Sonic platformer for the Saturn, it ended up being cancelled. Then they showed Sonic Adventure for the Dreamcast. It was a good game but they didn;t use every character to their very limits. it was not inovative. Yet, it was sucessful. Sonic Adventure 2 was good from the mission based levels like Super Mario 64 (For me Rouge also). Heroes was a failure. It was pathetically easy, only 2 missions per level, short, had a horrible story, the basis of 3 characters at once was not preformed well, Tails' voice sucked(Most reviewers WERE Tails fans until that game cause of his crappy voice), and the levels didn't fit well(No adventure fields or a continuing storyline to show progress and It looked dumb going to a completley different place than the previous zone.)

[Krazed Kitsune]

Yeah, I agree Marik. We need more speed and adventure fields; but the games ARE still pretty fast-paced.
2d platformers are cool, but Sonic should continue to be in both styles. And the attitude is still there, just toned down.

IMHO= In my honest/humble opinion

[Marik]

The Sonic Advance series would be cool if it was longer, but I would like to see Sonic sidescrollers either with good graphics or a cool style like Mega Man 8 ot the Capcom vs. series.

[hypergreyfox]

The best part about this game is that Tails could kick Sonic!

[PigsMayFlie]

I don't think this game sucks (now the only sonic game i have not completed fully!)

But getting to Metal sonic could be a pain. all emeralds and all storys.. thats rough

sonic adventure.. too easy Tails took sonics story only the toned it down a bit.. they could have made a better job of his story..
Gamma's was too easy.. but the trickiest one was amy's for me.. she just can't do me any favours

and now on to sa2 Final rush was not more annoying than chase i could have sworn i lost 8 life on rush and 12 on chase

i do admit the style of sa2 Is a bit dumb.. only having the same kind of level for 2 characters and the boss layout is out of order.. they should a t least give knuckles and Tails a bit of action with bosses just sonic hogging the fight.

the team has theur faults but if they keep sonic and Tails an all alive then it's fine by me...

for any of you that can't be bugged reading it it's just a long winded post that get's crazier

[Krazed Kitsune]

You actually found Final Chase to be more challenging than Final Rush? Wow!
I lost a HUGE amount of lives first time through Rush, but I died about... twice, maybe, on Chase. BUT, I still believe Chase to be harder; On Rush there seems to be some strange mistakes. The camera can be really silly at times, and the gravity/physics of the level are messed up.

[Krazed Kitsune]

In other words, you may die more on Rush, but that's not really your fault.

[Xen Zeratul]

Rush, for me, was very easy. All you need is to be very precise on your rail jumps and lands, and know where your going. Of course, the first time through i died about 2 or 3 times, but whats there to worry about with more than 80 lives? For me, Chase was hard cause there was too many gravity things like those cylinders (Sonic 3 Zone 4, anyone?), but by then, i was practicaly an Ace (but never got all the emblems -sob-) and made it through with losing only 1 life.

[Krazed Kitsune]

If you predict the gravity-drums, they can make the level easier. Me and my friend can finish chase in less than 4 minutes easily, THANKS to those drums.

Getting all the emblems is a waste of time... all you get is a silly level called Green Hill, based on a level from the earlier Sonic games. Maybe even 1st level of sonic 1...

[Marik]

Green Hill is cool. It's a blast from the past!I's the first level of the first Sonic game. Its the most popular zone

[Krazed Kitsune]

PSSHH! You can finish green hill in 28 seeconds or less if you know what you're doing.
I like the camera angles in that level though; at the beginning it looks side scroller with a 3d Sonic!!

[Krazed Kitsune]

Hey, has anyone else noticed that with Sonic Heroes? The camera angle is so far back you can't see the finer details.

Have you any gameplay screenshots of Shadow The Hedgehog (the game), Marik? I wouldn't mind at all if the graphics were Sonic Heroes style, so long as we can see them.

[Marik]

Go to IGN.com, they have every shot and trailer of Shadow. Theres so many guns, Uzis, machine guns, alien guns, swords!!!!!

[Kit]

I would really like to see another sidescrolling sonic game. They could make it kind of like Viewtiful Joe, sidescrolling but in a 3d world. With Sega trying to find a way to reinvent Sonic, what better way then to go back to its roots? I have no major problem with any of the 3d games (even SH), but we all know they are by no means great. I think Sega really needs to work alot harder with the franchise. I have no problem with Shadow having his own game, but I hope they include the other characters from the Sonic universe(besides big, I hate that stupid cat). Sure im a bit skeptical about him with a gun, but im looking forward to a more mature Sonic.